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SCOOTERDMAN

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Life, death and mourning on the social web: What should Newsvine do?

Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:15 AM EST
technology, facebook, death, newsvine, social-networking, myspace, memorial, mourning, social-web
By ScooterDMan

We've lived life here — that's for sure. But what happens when we die? It's a tough question, but we really ought to give it some thought. Deathly graphic by ScooterDMan.

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If you've really lived on the Internet — in other words, if a good deal of your formative social interactions have been experienced online — then one day you will inevitably "die" on the Internet. As it stands now, it seems that it would be way too easy for friends to "disappear" without a trace, never to be heard from again. This would not be acceptable in "real life," so why here?

This is morbid, but I've been thinking about it a lot, and I turn to you for guidance.

While we may not like to acknowledge it, we who live on Newsvine will also die on Newsvine, and I think we ought to make a concerted effort sooner rather than later to address this. There will undoubtedly come a day when someone here whose stories we look forward to on a regular basis mysteriously stops posting with no prior warning.

How do we account for that here or in any other web community in which we are an active member? Considering the ways in which I exist as a social being in various communities on the web (Newsvine being the most intimate for me), I'd imagine that social relationships online will only become stronger as we grow older, especially as newer technology continues to bridge the gap between real and virtual. The friendships here are real and meaningful, which means loss here would have the potential to be painful and devastating.

Means of coping with the deaths of members have emerged from other social communities. Over at Facebook.com, members are often memorialized through the "wall" feature on that site:

When KU senior Nicole Bingham of Wichita died Oct. 7 in the fire at the Boardwalk Apartments, friends across the country immediately started writing on her "wall," the place on students' Facebook profile pages where users can post comments. Within days, the page turned into a living memorial for her. (source)

The web site MyDeathSpace.com generated a good deal of criticism in 2006 when it began linking deceased member's profile pages with their actual obituaries. The site often makes light of the MySpace deaths and in no way should serve as an example, but I think we ought to consider how we should handle this issue. To ignore it would be a mistake.

Our community is still young. Let's take the steps today — as morbid and depressing as they may be — to ensure that as we grow old here and eventually pass on, we have a method for recognizing the lives that were lived out on The Vine. Given the fact that many of us post to our respective communities without other "real" friends or families members knowing it, we need to devise a solution that will account for this possibility.

What are your thoughts? How can we devise a system for Newsvine that will ensure that when we lose a member, he or she is properly mourned? Let's put our organizational skills to use — if we can develop a system for orchestrating a worldwide online drinking contest, surely we can tackle this issue constructively.

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  • Public Discussion (43)
ScooterDMan

So since I've obviously thought a lot about this, my solution would look something like this:

Newsvine adds a page to your private settings that allows you to input personal information, like names and emails of friends and family members. Once submitted, Newsvine will automatically send out an email to the user if he/she hasn't logged in to the site in a specified amount of time (say 3 months). If the user responds, the clock is reset. If the user doesn't respond in, say, 1 month, then Newsvine sends out emails to the contacts the user has provided. At that point, should the worst be confirmed, Newsvine can then put up some sort of notice on the site.

Any ideas? Or is this too uncomfortable or crazy?

  • 6 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:17 AM EST
whatwasleft

Maybe what we really need is an obit section on the Vine--a place for people to mourn. It could become part of the COH, that if you hear of the death of another Viner, then you are responsible to report it. Cyberwakes are still wakes and cyberfunerals still show respect for the dead. Great post, Scoot. This is something that has crossed my mind, but I have never given much thought to.

  • 4 votes
#1.1 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:21 AM EST
ScooterDMan

That's probably a good start. I just went to go create a group for it (obits.newsvine.com), but it felt funny. Anyone else want to administer that group?

  • 3 votes
#1.2 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:27 AM EST
Adam Becker

I don't understand why this matters.

If you become friends with someone via this Web site (I'd say I have), than they would find out about your death through other means. I don't know if Random Newsviner should really care about my death, if I were to die tomorrow. Or at least, not care anymore about my death than the countless tragic deaths that happen every day.

  • 3 votes
#1.3 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:29 AM EST
ScooterDMan

If your friendship exists purely over the Internet and does not leave the confines of the community, then it is really easy to conceive of a situation in which that friend could just stop showing up. There are many people here who'd I consider friends who, if they stopped posting on Newsvine, I'd have no way of knowing what happened to them.

  • 5 votes
#1.4 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:37 AM EST
Adam Becker

And what *I* am saying is, if your relationship is confined to an anonymous Web site, it's falling under a very liberal defintion of "friend."

I went to elementary school with people I considered friends then who could very well be dead now. I think it would be unhealthy on my part to worry so much about whether or not they are dead that I start calling their parents at random intervals to ask if they are still alive.

  • 3 votes
#1.5 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:41 AM EST
Dr Juice

Newsvine adds a page to your private settings that allows you to input personal information, like names and emails of friends and family members. Once submitted, Newsvine will automatically send out an email to the user if he/she hasn't logged in to the site in a specified amount of time (say 3 months). If the user responds, the clock is reset. If the user doesn't respond in, say, 1 month, then Newsvine sends out emails to the contacts the user has provided. At that point, should the worst be confirmed, Newsvine can then put up some sort of notice on the site.

I don't think my friends and family members would want to get emails from random people ever, especially if some unfortunate event should befall me. It would just seem...eerie.

I think what you should do instead is create something like a "Newsvine Hall of Fame." When a member that you really like leaves the site for any reason, you could submit one of your favorite posts of their's to the Hall of Fame, where it would have to get voted in.

  • 1 vote
#1.6 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:09 AM EST
ScooterDMan

I don't think my friends and family members would want to get emails from random people ever, especially if some unfortunate event should befall me. It would just seem...eerie.

I don't know about this. I have a feeling that if something happened to me and my folks got an email from a community who valued my presence there, they would likely be touched, even if they were unaware that I had "lived" there.

When a member that you really like leaves the site for any reason, you could submit one of your favorite posts of their's to the Hall of Fame, where it would have to get voted in.

This is a great idea, but it sort of misses the point. My point is that within this type of structure it is easy for someone who is a recognizable contributor to disappear without anyone knowing. That's what we ought to seek to prevent.

  • 1 vote
#1.7 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:08 AM EST
Adam Becker

So Scooter, would you advocate harassing users' families to find out when their birthdays are to send them cards? Wedding gifts? Anniversary presents?

My point is that within this type of structure it is easy for someone who is a recognizable contributor to disappear without anyone knowing. That's what we ought to seek to prevent.

Why?

  • 2 votes
#1.8 - Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:15 AM EST
Samantha Gluck

Adam.

    #1.9 - Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:23 AM EST
    Reply
    Benno Hansen

    Seeing the headline I suspected this would be a silly post.

    But actually as social life is moving into cyberspace dealing with death is in jeopardy. Everyone should experience loved ones dying - the opposite would be sick. Life has moved from flesh to screens. Westerners are desentisized while right outside our castle walls people live in filth. 300.000 Iraqi infants have died unnecessarily and Newsvine casually argue who else is to blame.

    Guess I got carried away there but good idea, do something.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#2 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:32 AM EST
    ScooterDMan

    Thanks, Benno.

    • 4 votes
    #2.1 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:08 AM EST
    Reply
    vicaxp

    I owe this idea more thought before I respond in full.

    Thanks, SDM.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#3 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:16 AM EST
    Samantha Gluck

    You were instrumental in saving me -- just with a couple of words in an email and sending rwarner my way. I think this is really an important idea.

    • 3 votes
    #3.1 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:19 PM EST
    vicaxp

    Thanks, Samantha.

    To be honest, you were the person I thought of first when I read this email. Thanksful we didnt ahve to employ any of these ideas in your case.

    Thanks for the comment either way.

    Live and love, for once the living is gone, the love goes on!

    • 3 votes
    #3.2 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:07 PM EST
    Samantha Gluck

    You're welcome my super NV friend!

    • 2 votes
    #3.3 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:02 PM EST
    Reply
    Redruby

    Scooter...I think this is a valid concern but I don't have an answer. I think it's important to honor relationships, cyber or not...and we're not all so good at it. I'm still trying to understand what a cyber relationship is and what it means. So many people, known and not known, are touched by others in this realm. Hard to know what a friend is really. Clearer to feel community and connection. I'd certainly want to know when someone had moved on, whether through death or disinterest. I'd want to be able to say good bye. One idea is that each of us would make known to someone in our 'real life' that we would want, let's say, newsvine, to get one last post letting people know. Wow, kind of like writing our own obituary.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#4 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:21 AM EST
    ScooterDMan

    Wow, kind of like writing our own obituary.

    I've thought about this, too. We could write our own obituary, but I assume most would be uncomfortable with that. I would. Maybe a Last Will and Testament? Something a little less serious than an obituary?

    • 2 votes
    #4.1 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:32 AM EST
    Reply
    Brian Ford

    Let's put our organizational skills to use — if we can develop a system for orchestrating a worldwide online drinking contest, surely we can tackle this issue constructively.

    Frankly, having been a fairly sober bystander of that event -- I'm surprised that we didn't have to deal with the death of a 'Viner the next morning. I'm sure several "felt" like death.

    :)

    • 3 votes
    Reply#5 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:24 AM EST
    Brian Ford

    Just as an FYI: An entire espisode of the TV show My Name is Earl was about this very topic.

    One of the people on his list had no social life -- and Earl couldn't find anyone to attend his funeral. When they got to his house, the found thousands of messages upon logging in and realized that he had spent all his time socializing online. I believe they ended up having a virtual funeral, which ended up bringing everyone together in real life.

    • 7 votes
    Reply#6 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:27 AM EST
    Samantha Gluck

    I love that show! I haven't seen that particular episode, however. I'll have to find it.

      #6.1 - Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:44 PM EST
      Reply
      oldfogey

      If I were to die there are many on line codes, sites, user names and passwords that someone will need to negotiate my estate. It behooves me to give a document to someone I trust to be aware of these things once I have died. All the info could be contained within a will or the will could give directions to obtaining such info. In this regard, I need to get off my butt and produce such a document and hand it to Vicki. As things stand now, she would have a hardship caused by my negligence in keeping all this info to myself.

      Along with that document, it might behoove me, and others, to write our own obits and have them available so others can publish them at the appropriate time.

      • 6 votes
      Reply#7 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:41 AM EST
      chill

      Old Fogey - great point - my wife and I had a similar conversation when we bought a house last year. We began documenting, organizing and backing up important hard and online documents - and ensuring that we knew what each other owned. I had an investment account with only online statements that would have never been touched if I died as she didn't know it existed.

      if we can develop a system for orchestrating a worldwide online drinking contest, surely we can tackle this issue constructively.

      funnily enough the Online Drinking Contest almost killed me. ;-)

      • 3 votes
      #7.1 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:56 PM EST
      Reply
      Raat ki Raani

      I have only just arrived on the Vine. Literally. Thanks to Digg, who unceremoniously 'killed' my being on their site. So in some ways, I share the submitters sentiment. Let me think of something worthy of contribution. Good way to start a new life!

      • 8 votes
      Reply#8 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:48 AM EST
      whatwasleft

      Welcome, Raat!

      • 4 votes
      #8.1 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:49 PM EST
      Samantha Gluck

      Yes, welcome Raat! Glad to have a new NV author to read!

      • 1 vote
      #8.2 - Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:46 PM EST
      Reply
      Vincent Grayson

      There's been a few deaths over the years in another community I belong to, and we've yet to come up with a solution to how to keep track of people.

      The most recent one was fairly tragic, as it was during our white elephant gift exchange, and the gift giver knew his WE guy was pretty depressed and upset with his life, so he put together a great package of stuff, only to come online asking if anyone had heard from him after the package sat on his doorstep for a week. Tragically, he had killed himself, and this guy never found out.

      There's something very strange about the death of a friend you've never really met.

      • 3 votes
      Reply#9 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:32 PM EST
      ScooterDMan

      There's something very strange about the death of a friend you've never really met.

      Yea, really. Do you think it's a worthy cause, then, to try to develop a system?

      • 1 vote
      #9.1 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:47 PM EST
      Vincent Grayson

      I do, especially in a community as active and dependent on its members as this one. I'm not sure how exactly I'd do it though. Maybe something simple like a secondary contact you could list in your profile? It could even be hidden from the general public so that only friends could see it, and use it to contact someone you know in real life (be it friend or family) to see what's up.

      • 2 votes
      #9.2 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:54 PM EST
      Redruby

      What a tragic story, Vincent. How did you ever find out?

      • 1 vote
      #9.3 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:16 PM EST
      Vincent Grayson

      One of the us lived fairly close to him, and if I remember correctly, he spotted something in the paper and looked into it.

        #9.4 - Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:06 AM EST
        Reply
        Samantha Gluck

        Scooter, I too, have thought about this. I disappeared for a while because of extenuating personal matters and a few people here on NV had my real email. They were concerned after not hearing from me for a while. It really made me feel good that these people actually cared and certainly pulled me through an extremely tough time. I don't know what the solution is really, but maybe at least one or two of the person's closest friends should have contact info for each other. Does that make any sense?

        • 2 votes
        Reply#10 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:17 PM EST
        ScooterDMan

        I don't know what the solution is really, but maybe at least one or two of the person's closest friends should have contact info for each other. Does that make any sense?

        Yea, I think that would be more than adequate. I just think we need to have a system — whether it emerges from the community or is incorporated into our account some how by the admins.

        That's a nice story you told. I am glad things are better for you.

        • 1 vote
        #10.1 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:14 PM EST
        Samantha Gluck

        Thanks Scooter. I know we don't always see eye to eye, but building relationships on NV and discussion is what it's all about.

        • 1 vote
        #10.2 - Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:23 AM EST
        Reply
        chill

        I cycle a lot and track rides with my GPS and then post them to a great tracking and mapping site Motionbased.com. You can share and download routes of others.

        A while back a popular cyclist who was killed in a traffic accident. His many friends posted touching eulogies, elsewhere. Motionbased left his rides up on their site, so sad.

        How about an online celebration/wake, where people discuss favorite articles of the deceased

        • 3 votes
        Reply#11 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:38 PM EST
        firsty

        i keep an easy-to-find text document on the desktop of my home computer with usernames and passwords and a list of all my online memberships, as well as my emails. aside from some of the people who i know only through the internet, a lot of the contact information for my friends is stored online, and i wanted a way for my wifey and/or kids/parents to be able to cancel accounts, notify out-of-town friends, etc. also, this ensures that my writing, some of which is stored only online, is kept and archived by my family.

        if i die, i've asked whoever reads the "letter" it to update most of my profiles with just some basic info that i'm pouncing thru the afterlife. no drama, just a simple note.

        • 1 vote
        Reply#12 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:15 PM EST
        ScooterDMan

        That's cool. I've thought about doing that, too. It's just so uncomfortable having to write down an online will that acknowledges that you're going to die.

        • 2 votes
        #12.1 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:22 PM EST
        firsty

        true. funnily enough, i actually did it - wrote the letter - a few years ago, during a particularly traumatic time when i was deeply in tune with my own mortality. it was actually a therapeutic process as well, to be honest.

        there is probably a market out there for a web 2.0 application that stores your virtual identity to be unlocked by your loved ones by a valid death certificate. somebody should make that.

        • 1 vote
        #12.2 - Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:50 AM EST
        Reply
        ArdithDeleted
        JimmyHavok

        It's happened to me...one of my Usenet friends lived in France, and when I was scheduled to vacation there, I sent an email to see if we could f2f, although I hadn't seen him online for six months or so. His wife wrote back, saying that he had died suddenly. There wasn't much I could do except offer condolences.

        • 2 votes
        Reply#14 - Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:28 PM EST
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